tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5889026769761133073.post1363407974123725354..comments2023-12-22T08:42:36.132+00:00Comments on Gaian Economics: Capitalists Defend Capital Against the Banks?Mollyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12845612174674783187noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5889026769761133073.post-64341687912743741092010-09-17T14:40:47.695+01:002010-09-17T14:40:47.695+01:00Ha! I love this bit from that blogpost: "It i...Ha! I love this bit from that blogpost: "It is property which enables human social cooperation through production, exchange and consumption". What?! So all those early humans, the non-human ancestors of our species, and indeed myriad species around the world that co-operate for mutual benefit without any sense, let alone system of all-important 'property rights' weren't actually co-operating, even, <i>able</i> to cooperate, because they weren't involved in production, exchange and consumption of property.<br /><br />There are some many present day examples as well, but let's use a really basic one! What property does a conversation involve? Is that not human social cooperation?<br /><br />I found it quite hard to take the rest of the article seriously after that, but I'm sure it goes some way to emphasising the extent to which it's possible to come to a similar conclusion for very different reasons (and with very different goals in mind)<br /><br />Do you think when other conservatives talk about cooperation what they really mean is 'production, exchange and consumption - mediated through property rights'?<br /><br />Maybe I should send him a copy of Kropotkin's Mutual Aid.<br /><br />For anyone else in need of reminding of the essentially co-operative nature of human beings, the book is available online here: herehttp://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/kropotkin/mutaidcontents.html <br /><br />If you've not come across it before, or don't have to time to delve properly, wikipedia has a page here:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_EvolutionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5889026769761133073.post-42428161973801368612010-09-16T15:30:28.722+01:002010-09-16T15:30:28.722+01:00It certainly is encouraging to see such fundamenta...It certainly is encouraging to see such fundamentals being debated in parliament.I believe that by getting such discussions onto the political agenda across the board, the debates will naturally lead to questions of the underlying ends of our economic system, thus throwing open the doors to systemic reform rather than the incremental patch work of reform we are currently seeing.<br /><br />On the issue of 'property' itself, this is an interesting paper which demonstrates that to constrain the expanision of property is fundamentally in opposition to capitalism's raison d'etre. In this light then, a bill such as this is not strengthening the foundations of capitalism, but is directly confronting it's natural tendencies.<br /><br />http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VFX-4WSRDYH-2&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F2010&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1463469511&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=377a3b38e2f82d0d0869042069530b37&searchtype=a<br /><br />I think Adam's blog has alluded to a huge issue with this bill, it seems to discount the fact that we recieve banking services for free due to the fact that our money can be used for profit by the banks, meaning fees would be introduced as a result of the bill with no protection for the least well off. I do believe the debate is a just one and should be encouraged but agree with Adam that a more considered approach is required.ronanpeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13375024006869462385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5889026769761133073.post-50887684542199857492010-09-16T13:53:37.753+01:002010-09-16T13:53:37.753+01:00Carswell's proposals have nothing to do with c...Carswell's proposals have nothing to do with constraining capital and everything to do with enforcing property rights to the point where the poor can't afford banking services. Please consider my post on the subject before making your mind up: http://declineofthelogos.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/douglas-carswell-has-a-bit-of-a-fetish/Adam Bellhttp://declineofthelogos.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com